From neale at nealemorison.com Sat Feb 2 12:06:46 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:06:46 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Just started Cognitive Psychology class Message-ID: <47A3C226.1090609@nealemorison.com> I find when I think about thinking, There's a funny sensation of sinking, In endless recursion, And so for diversion, I think about thinking of thinking. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From neale at nealemorison.com Sat Feb 2 12:09:49 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:09:49 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thought again Message-ID: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> Draft 2 I find when I'm thinking of thinking, There's a funny sensation of sinking In endless recursion, And so for diversion I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 12:16:57 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:16:57 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Just started Cognitive Psychology class In-Reply-To: <47A3C226.1090609@nealemorison.com> References: <47A3C226.1090609@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: Hey, it's Ogden Nash! that was a lot of fun, Neale. Nice work. On Feb 1, 2008 8:06 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > I find when I think about thinking, > There's a funny sensation of sinking, > In endless recursion, > And so for diversion, > I think about thinking of thinking. > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/2781413e/attachment.html From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 12:17:32 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:17:32 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thought again In-Reply-To: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: Better. good call on the change On Feb 1, 2008 8:09 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > Draft 2 > > I find when I'm thinking of thinking, > There's a funny sensation of sinking > In endless recursion, > And so for diversion > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/9d102523/attachment.html From neale at nealemorison.com Sat Feb 2 12:49:01 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 20:49:01 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thought again In-Reply-To: References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <47A3CC0D.6060407@nealemorison.com> Thanks Adam. On your recommendation via footer quote I have requested The Snow Leopard by Peter Mattheissen from the Cambridge Library. Adam Holland wrote: > Better. good call on the change > > On Feb 1, 2008 8:09 PM, Neale Morison > wrote: > > Draft 2 > > I find when I'm thinking of thinking, > There's a funny sensation of sinking > In endless recursion, > And so for diversion > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 12:57:24 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:57:24 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thought again In-Reply-To: <47A3CC0D.6060407@nealemorison.com> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <47A3CC0D.6060407@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: Oh, so good! I included excerpts in my wedding vows. Adam On Feb 1, 2008 8:49 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > Thanks Adam. On your recommendation via footer quote I have requested > The Snow Leopard by Peter Mattheissen from the Cambridge Library. > > > Adam Holland wrote: > > Better. good call on the change > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 8:09 PM, Neale Morison > > wrote: > > > > Draft 2 > > > > I find when I'm thinking of thinking, > > There's a funny sensation of sinking > > In endless recursion, > > And so for diversion > > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > > > -- > > Neale Morison > > neale at nealemorison.com > > http://www.nealemorison.com > > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > > +1 617 460 9969 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/50eecb4a/attachment.html From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 12:58:50 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 20:58:50 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] More stories Message-ID: OK, so these two are part of an ongoing project I have got going on, though it has been on hiatus with law school. The idea is to do Kipling's "Just So" stories with the SF flavor. I've done some of them. The two about the creation of written language are elusive, so I may have to do some originals rather than a pastiche. I have an idea for doing an illustrated chapbook, or something. If you're familiar with the originals, you should be able to figure out to which ones these are an homage. Adam -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/b6f1471c/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Miner SF version 3-31.rtf Type: application/rtf Size: 61576 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/b6f1471c/attachment-0002.rtf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Singsong Nature' subm.rtf Type: application/rtf Size: 51438 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/b6f1471c/attachment-0003.rtf From nmorison at MIT.EDU Sat Feb 2 13:13:28 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:13:28 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] More stories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A3D1C8.7080204@mit.edu> You have kippled. I just read the Asteroiod Miner's Child, of which I loved every moment. I don't know why it was so satisfying. I guess the deft nerd strokes coupled with the true respect for the original may have had something to do with it. Very funny, very beautiful. Thank you, Adam. Adam Holland wrote: > OK, so these two are part of an ongoing project I have got going on, > though it has been on hiatus with law school. > > The idea is to do Kipling's "Just So" stories with the SF flavor. > > I've done some of them. The two about the creation of written > language are elusive, so I may have to do some originals rather than a > pastiche. I have an idea for doing an illustrated chapbook, or something. > > If you're familiar with the originals, > you should be able to figure out to > which ones these are an homage. > > > Adam > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 13:28:46 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:28:46 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] More stories In-Reply-To: <47A3D1C8.7080204@mit.edu> References: <47A3D1C8.7080204@mit.edu> Message-ID: Hey, thanks! I am glad you liked it, and that you thought it was funny. (It's supposed to make the reader smile) I sort of envisioned it and its brethren being the sort of stories a parent would tell a child when the Singularity, or something similar, was so far past that a lot of the details had taken on the fuzzy or nebulous quality of myth or legend, despite their thoroughly technological underpinnings. Like a techno-folktale. AH On Feb 1, 2008 9:13 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > You have kippled. > I just read the Asteroiod Miner's Child, of which I loved every moment. > I don't know why it was so satisfying. I guess the deft nerd strokes > coupled with the true respect for the original may have had something to > do with it. Very funny, very beautiful. > Thank you, > Adam. > > Adam Holland wrote: > > OK, so these two are part of an ongoing project I have got going on, > > though it has been on hiatus with law school. > > > > The idea is to do Kipling's "Just So" stories with the SF flavor. > > > > I've done some of them. The two about the creation of written > > language are elusive, so I may have to do some originals rather than a > > pastiche. I have an idea for doing an illustrated chapbook, or > something. > > > > If you're familiar with the originals, > > you should be able to figure out to > > which ones these are an homage. > > > > > > Adam > > -- > > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/896cf621/attachment.html From nmorison at MIT.EDU Sat Feb 2 13:26:00 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 21:26:00 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] More stories In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47A3D4B8.6070501@mit.edu> Just read John Q Post Human. Also very fine and very expert. Yellow dog gene hacker has something to answer for. I remember those Just So stories from when I was five or so, and the sci fi genre kicked in when I was ten or so, starting with the Superman comic book collection. It's all wonderful nostalgia, even set in the future. Tell you what though, a kangaroo is not an evolutionary mistake. They are the last of the megafauna and if you hit them with your car, you lose. Adam Holland wrote: > OK, so these two are part of an ongoing project I have got going on, > though it has been on hiatus with law school. > > The idea is to do Kipling's "Just So" stories with the SF flavor. > > I've done some of them. The two about the creation of written > language are elusive, so I may have to do some originals rather than a > pastiche. I have an idea for doing an illustrated chapbook, or something. > > If you're familiar with the originals, > you should be able to figure out to > which ones these are an homage. > > > Adam > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From adam.holland at gmail.com Sat Feb 2 13:40:08 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 21:40:08 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] More stories In-Reply-To: <47A3D4B8.6070501@mit.edu> References: <47A3D4B8.6070501@mit.edu> Message-ID: On Feb 1, 2008 9:26 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > . It's all wonderful nostalgia, even set in the future. that's exactly the idea. Future history. you know how someone, (Heinlein?) said that a good SF novel was one that an inhabitant of the time and place about which you were writing would think was contemporary fiction? I'm striving for the same thing, just for a folktale / fairytale instead of a novel. Since you've been so positive, I'll send you another. When I send all of them, I'll have to write more. ;) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/0508cc24/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Star Leviathan v4.doc Type: application/msword Size: 33280 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/0508cc24/attachment-0001.doc From nesvold at MIT.EDU Sat Feb 2 15:01:18 2008 From: nesvold at MIT.EDU (Jessica R Nesvold) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:01:18 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don?t stop or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play with power. You?re on a roll, I?m on the rocks. I?m ready to ? Become the man you?ve always wanted: A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. From nesvold at MIT.EDU Sat Feb 2 15:10:40 2008 From: nesvold at MIT.EDU (Jessica R Nesvold) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:10:40 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> Message-ID: <20080201231040.nz7i473z73co8s0s@webmail.mit.edu> Sorry. Webmail seems to have killed my apostrophes. :-/ Here it is in Word. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: spam.doc Type: application/msword Size: 24064 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080201/7a9e94a4/attachment-0001.doc From nmorison at MIT.EDU Sat Feb 2 15:21:54 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 23:21:54 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> Message-ID: <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is something my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some alignment of parameters takes it. And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said Spam, not Thunderbird. I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an idea it may be about a subject near to my heart. Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. But maybe that's not it. I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense (it's an 80s thing): It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. > > Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. > I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop > or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play > with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - > > Become the man you've always wanted: > A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From adam.holland at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 00:56:13 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 08:56:13 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> Message-ID: OK, the last line of Neale's comment is one of the most insightful, pithy things I've heard in a long time. It would not be out of place in a Zen monastery, and completely reframes this poem for me. I will now have to do several rereadings. I agree that the correct understanding of the title is key. On Feb 1, 2008 11:21 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is something > my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some > alignment of parameters takes it. > And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said Spam, not > Thunderbird. > I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an idea > it may be about a subject near to my heart. > Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by > anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. > I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with > which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. > But maybe that's not it. > I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. > Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a > comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense (it's > an 80s thing): > It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. > > > > Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > > I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. > > > > Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. > > I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop > > or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play > > with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - > > > > Become the man you've always wanted: > > A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080202/2debf600/attachment.html From and at MIT.EDU Sun Feb 3 01:16:10 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:16:10 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Riding Horse (version 2) Message-ID: <1201961770.3568.36.camel@dasein> Riding Horse I stick the needle in my arm. A search for peace, an end to worry. A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. The potion flows, a magic charm, And no one knows the pomp and glory. I stick the needle in my arm. Magic gone, sweat slicks my palm. A search for more. Desperate! Hurry! A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. My anguish soothed with poppies balm. A fleeting peace from brown-burnt slurry. I stick the needle in my arm. The room seems chill, it was so warm. My life revealed. Escape that story. A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. A blissful dream: I own a farm and in the fields my troubles bury. I stick the needle in my arm. No sleep so restful, quiet, calm. From neale at nealemorison.com Sun Feb 3 01:27:01 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:27:01 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Riding Horse (version 2) In-Reply-To: <1201961770.3568.36.camel@dasein> References: <1201961770.3568.36.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47A47DB5.4070007@nealemorison.com> Thank you Antony. The villanelle deserves more than an irresponsible attack, and here's proof that it can work. You make it sound so good, maybe I'll try it. Brrr. A little scary, this one. Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > Riding Horse > > I stick the needle in my arm. > A search for peace, an end to worry. > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > The potion flows, a magic charm, > And no one knows the pomp and glory. > I stick the needle in my arm. > > Magic gone, sweat slicks my palm. > A search for more. Desperate! Hurry! > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > My anguish soothed with poppies balm. > A fleeting peace from brown-burnt slurry. > I stick the needle in my arm. > > The room seems chill, it was so warm. > My life revealed. Escape that story. > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > A blissful dream: I own a farm > and in the fields my troubles bury. > I stick the needle in my arm. > No sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From neale at nealemorison.com Sun Feb 3 01:34:16 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:34:16 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> Message-ID: <47A47F68.1050200@nealemorison.com> Here's Mr Byrne singing the song: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r7X3f2gFz4 I'm talking 80s. The suit alone will dance forever in my dreams. and here's the Letterman interview: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9r7X3f2gFz4 The comment is at about 2:50 Adam Holland wrote: > OK, the last line of Neale's comment is one of the most insightful, > pithy things I've heard in a long time. > It would not be out of place in a Zen monastery, and completely > reframes this poem for me. > I will now have to do several rereadings. I agree that the correct > understanding of the title is key. > > On Feb 1, 2008 11:21 PM, Neale Morison > wrote: > > Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is > something > my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some > alignment of parameters takes it. > And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said > Spam, not > Thunderbird. > I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an > idea > it may be about a subject near to my heart. > Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by > anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. > I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with > which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. > But maybe that's not it. > I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. > Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a > comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense > (it's > an 80s thing): > It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. > > > > Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > > I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. > > > > Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. > > I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop > > or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play > > with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - > > > > Become the man you've always wanted: > > A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From and at MIT.EDU Sun Feb 3 01:53:59 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:53:59 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Riding Horse (version 2) In-Reply-To: <47A47DB5.4070007@nealemorison.com> References: <1201961770.3568.36.camel@dasein> <47A47DB5.4070007@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <1201964039.3568.55.camel@dasein> I wrote version 1 for a class in 1994 or so. As class ended the day I read it, one of my classmates asked, "Is this autobiographical?" I said, "Yes. Everything I write is autobiographical." That's truer now than it was then. I find getting inside someone else's head much harder than imagining what I would do in a situation I've never been in. Version 2 I wrote this morning. Well, more rearrangement than rewriting, although a bit of that, too. I'll send version one if anyone is interested. The villanelle was a wonderful form for capturing addiction. It's repetitive structure is so like the behavior of junkies. I've been really busy at work, but the outpouring of creativity on this list has gotten me looking at things I've written before and thinking about things I'd like to write. I'll send some more of the former. My hope is that the latter makes it here too. Antony On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 09:27 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > Thank you Antony. The villanelle deserves more than an irresponsible > attack, and here's proof that it can work. > You make it sound so good, maybe I'll try it. Brrr. A little scary, this > one. > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > Riding Horse > > > > I stick the needle in my arm. > > A search for peace, an end to worry. > > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > > > The potion flows, a magic charm, > > And no one knows the pomp and glory. > > I stick the needle in my arm. > > > > Magic gone, sweat slicks my palm. > > A search for more. Desperate! Hurry! > > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > > > My anguish soothed with poppies balm. > > A fleeting peace from brown-burnt slurry. > > I stick the needle in my arm. > > > > The room seems chill, it was so warm. > > My life revealed. Escape that story. > > A sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > > > A blissful dream: I own a farm > > and in the fields my troubles bury. > > I stick the needle in my arm. > > No sleep so restful, quiet, calm. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > From and at MIT.EDU Sun Feb 3 01:57:00 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 09:57:00 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Melancholy Apologies Message-ID: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> Melancholy Apologies To be, or not to be. Is that the question? To be as I am. A Man. Tormented. To wonder at the chances missed; the words I never spoke; the words I wish I'd left unsaid. To wonder and to never know. Should all be clear in hindsight? Perhaps. My past as murky as tomorrow, Today the most obscure. From this is there no respite? Only death? To die,- to sleep;- To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; The stroke; the chafe; the wound; the bloody sore. For surely I must die. And dying, end. But in that sleep from which I never wake I do not dream of dreaming. Nothing is all that the long sleep can bring. An end. Complete. An end to what I am not sure. A job, An education, a career, an art, all gone. A husband once, a father, too; Dear friend for a time: to a few; too few. But time slips---friends slip---family slips---away. Time slipped---or spent?---or squandered? Arguments won, and lost; conflicts concluded. Women known, and known, but love unfounded; And choices made and consequence unfelt. The joy and betrayal; the pleasure for pain. Taken from those who give for exchange. And sin? And guilt? But nothing in the end. Does conscience thus make cowards of us all? But truths of my past, aren't true of me now. No fate I fear, no retribution. And yet---and yet---I wonder at my life. Judge myself? Fear another's verdict? I will be known. The world changed from my presence. My name kept, in the archives, in the tomes, And all my sins remembered. From neale at nealemorison.com Sun Feb 3 09:05:27 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 17:05:27 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Not if you try to figure them out In-Reply-To: References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> Message-ID: <47A4E927.3060704@nealemorison.com> Sorry the link I gave for the Letterman Byrne interview didn't make sense. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwCEajWOjKE At 2:44 Letterman: The words in this particular instance don't mean anything, do they? Byrne: Well they do, but not if you try to figure them out. From neale at nealemorison.com Sun Feb 3 12:46:43 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 20:46:43 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Melancholy Apologies In-Reply-To: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> References: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47A51D03.6090401@nealemorison.com> Antony, You have tapped into a deep dark well of angst that would put many an adolescent to shame and makes Hamlet look like an optimist. First your horse riding, now a monkey on your back. You all right, mate? Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > Melancholy Apologies > > To be, or not to be. Is that the question? > To be as I am. A Man. Tormented. > To wonder at the chances missed; the words > I never spoke; the words I wish I'd left > unsaid. To wonder and to never know. > Should all be clear in hindsight? Perhaps. > My past as murky as tomorrow, > Today the most obscure. From this is there > no respite? Only death? To die,- to sleep;- > To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; > The stroke; the chafe; the wound; the bloody sore. > For surely I must die. And dying, end. > But in that sleep from which I never wake > I do not dream of dreaming. Nothing is all > that the long sleep can bring. An end. Complete. > An end to what I am not sure. A job, > An education, a career, an art, > all gone. A husband once, a father, too; > Dear friend for a time: to a few; too few. > But time slips---friends slip---family slips---away. > Time slipped---or spent?---or squandered? > Arguments won, and lost; conflicts concluded. > Women known, and known, but love unfounded; > And choices made and consequence unfelt. > The joy and betrayal; the pleasure for > pain. Taken from those who give for exchange. > And sin? And guilt? But nothing in the end. > Does conscience thus make cowards of us all? > But truths of my past, aren't true of me now. > No fate I fear, no retribution. > And yet---and yet---I wonder at my life. > Judge myself? Fear another's verdict? > I will be known. The world changed from my presence. > My name kept, in the archives, in the tomes, > And all my sins remembered. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From and at MIT.EDU Sun Feb 3 13:04:53 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:04:53 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Melancholy Apologies In-Reply-To: <47A51D03.6090401@nealemorison.com> References: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> <47A51D03.6090401@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <1202004293.3568.82.camel@dasein> I'm well, thanks for asking. I wrote both of them some time ago, and although they do reflect truths of me, they do not reflect all truth of me. Also, drama is often dark. Because dark is often interesting. I think it's much harder to write a compelling poem about the good things in life. At least, for me. And finally, I wanted to send something to this list. And the two poems I've sent so far represent work I'm proud of, so I started there. Antony On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 20:46 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > Antony, > You have tapped into a deep dark well of angst that would put many an > adolescent to shame and makes Hamlet look like an optimist. > First your horse riding, now a monkey on your back. > You all right, mate? > > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > Melancholy Apologies > > > > To be, or not to be. Is that the question? > > To be as I am. A Man. Tormented. > > To wonder at the chances missed; the words > > I never spoke; the words I wish I'd left > > unsaid. To wonder and to never know. > > Should all be clear in hindsight? Perhaps. > > My past as murky as tomorrow, > > Today the most obscure. From this is there > > no respite? Only death? To die,- to sleep;- > > To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; > > The stroke; the chafe; the wound; the bloody sore. > > For surely I must die. And dying, end. > > But in that sleep from which I never wake > > I do not dream of dreaming. Nothing is all > > that the long sleep can bring. An end. Complete. > > An end to what I am not sure. A job, > > An education, a career, an art, > > all gone. A husband once, a father, too; > > Dear friend for a time: to a few; too few. > > But time slips---friends slip---family slips---away. > > Time slipped---or spent?---or squandered? > > Arguments won, and lost; conflicts concluded. > > Women known, and known, but love unfounded; > > And choices made and consequence unfelt. > > The joy and betrayal; the pleasure for > > pain. Taken from those who give for exchange. > > And sin? And guilt? But nothing in the end. > > Does conscience thus make cowards of us all? > > But truths of my past, aren't true of me now. > > No fate I fear, no retribution. > > And yet---and yet---I wonder at my life. > > Judge myself? Fear another's verdict? > > I will be known. The world changed from my presence. > > My name kept, in the archives, in the tomes, > > And all my sins remembered. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > From adam.holland at gmail.com Sun Feb 3 13:07:46 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 21:07:46 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Melancholy Apologies In-Reply-To: <1202004293.3568.82.camel@dasein> References: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> <47A51D03.6090401@nealemorison.com> <1202004293.3568.82.camel@dasein> Message-ID: they both gave me pleasure to read, Anthony. I like the villanelle a lot. Adam PS maybe the monkey and the horse will kill each other off? On Feb 2, 2008 9:04 PM, Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > I'm well, thanks for asking. > > I wrote both of them some time ago, and although they do reflect truths > of me, they do not reflect all truth of me. > > Also, drama is often dark. Because dark is often interesting. I think > it's much harder to write a compelling poem about the good things in > life. At least, for me. > > And finally, I wanted to send something to this list. And the two poems > I've sent so far represent work I'm proud of, so I started there. > > Antony > > > On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 20:46 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > > Antony, > > You have tapped into a deep dark well of angst that would put many an > > adolescent to shame and makes Hamlet look like an optimist. > > First your horse riding, now a monkey on your back. > > You all right, mate? > > > > > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > > Melancholy Apologies > > > > > > To be, or not to be. Is that the question? > > > To be as I am. A Man. Tormented. > > > To wonder at the chances missed; the words > > > I never spoke; the words I wish I'd left > > > unsaid. To wonder and to never know. > > > Should all be clear in hindsight? Perhaps. > > > My past as murky as tomorrow, > > > Today the most obscure. From this is there > > > no respite? Only death? To die,- to sleep;- > > > To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; > > > The stroke; the chafe; the wound; the bloody sore. > > > For surely I must die. And dying, end. > > > But in that sleep from which I never wake > > > I do not dream of dreaming. Nothing is all > > > that the long sleep can bring. An end. Complete. > > > An end to what I am not sure. A job, > > > An education, a career, an art, > > > all gone. A husband once, a father, too; > > > Dear friend for a time: to a few; too few. > > > But time slips---friends slip---family slips---away. > > > Time slipped---or spent?---or squandered? > > > Arguments won, and lost; conflicts concluded. > > > Women known, and known, but love unfounded; > > > And choices made and consequence unfelt. > > > The joy and betrayal; the pleasure for > > > pain. Taken from those who give for exchange. > > > And sin? And guilt? But nothing in the end. > > > Does conscience thus make cowards of us all? > > > But truths of my past, aren't true of me now. > > > No fate I fear, no retribution. > > > And yet---and yet---I wonder at my life. > > > Judge myself? Fear another's verdict? > > > I will be known. The world changed from my presence. > > > My name kept, in the archives, in the tomes, > > > And all my sins remembered. > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080202/ce8041ed/attachment.html From nmorison at MIT.EDU Sun Feb 3 13:09:39 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 21:09:39 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Melancholy Apologies In-Reply-To: <1202004293.3568.82.camel@dasein> References: <1201964220.3568.58.camel@dasein> <47A51D03.6090401@nealemorison.com> <1202004293.3568.82.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47A52263.50407@mit.edu> That's good news. Thanks for sending your work, they both took me on an adventure into dark places. There are many soulful and sonorous lines in the latest one. Neale Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > I'm well, thanks for asking. > > I wrote both of them some time ago, and although they do reflect truths > of me, they do not reflect all truth of me. > > Also, drama is often dark. Because dark is often interesting. I think > it's much harder to write a compelling poem about the good things in > life. At least, for me. > > And finally, I wanted to send something to this list. And the two poems > I've sent so far represent work I'm proud of, so I started there. > > Antony > > > On Sat, 2008-02-02 at 20:46 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >> Antony, >> You have tapped into a deep dark well of angst that would put many an >> adolescent to shame and makes Hamlet look like an optimist. >> First your horse riding, now a monkey on your back. >> You all right, mate? >> >> >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >> >>> Melancholy Apologies >>> >>> To be, or not to be. Is that the question? >>> To be as I am. A Man. Tormented. >>> To wonder at the chances missed; the words >>> I never spoke; the words I wish I'd left >>> unsaid. To wonder and to never know. >>> Should all be clear in hindsight? Perhaps. >>> My past as murky as tomorrow, >>> Today the most obscure. From this is there >>> no respite? Only death? To die,- to sleep;- >>> To sleep! perchance to dream: ay, there's the rub; >>> The stroke; the chafe; the wound; the bloody sore. >>> For surely I must die. And dying, end. >>> But in that sleep from which I never wake >>> I do not dream of dreaming. Nothing is all >>> that the long sleep can bring. An end. Complete. >>> An end to what I am not sure. A job, >>> An education, a career, an art, >>> all gone. A husband once, a father, too; >>> Dear friend for a time: to a few; too few. >>> But time slips---friends slip---family slips---away. >>> Time slipped---or spent?---or squandered? >>> Arguments won, and lost; conflicts concluded. >>> Women known, and known, but love unfounded; >>> And choices made and consequence unfelt. >>> The joy and betrayal; the pleasure for >>> pain. Taken from those who give for exchange. >>> And sin? And guilt? But nothing in the end. >>> Does conscience thus make cowards of us all? >>> But truths of my past, aren't true of me now. >>> No fate I fear, no retribution. >>> And yet---and yet---I wonder at my life. >>> Judge myself? Fear another's verdict? >>> I will be known. The world changed from my presence. >>> My name kept, in the archives, in the tomes, >>> And all my sins remembered. >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From neale at nealemorison.com Sun Feb 3 14:17:08 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2008 22:17:08 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thanks for your contributions, and traffic Message-ID: <47A53234.6010300@nealemorison.com> Thank you very much to everyone who agreed to join the list and to those who have made contributions with writing or review. I am delighted with the level of activity on this list. It helps me a lot to have people to send writing to, and I have really enjoyed reading other people's stuff. Please send whatever you like, big or small, new or old. I want to see it and I'm sure other subscribers do too. It is possible some people may find the traffic a little high, but there's an easy fix by changing your options. If you go to the information and subscription page, at: http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com You can put in your email address and go to an options page to change your subscription details. Included as an option is receiving a daily digest of email, instead of an email every time the list receives one. There are other options you might find useful, too. If you have any trouble with the options page, I can set your options as list administrator, so please let me know. Thanks again to everyone, Neale -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From neale at nealemorison.com Mon Feb 4 03:08:14 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:08:14 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Travelling Light Message-ID: <47A5E6EE.4080707@nealemorison.com> Travelling Light Once as I was stopped at a traffic light, a woman jumped out of a nearby car and said Stop him, stop him. There on the street corner a bum was beating the shit out of another bum. He had him on the ground, delivered a few more vicious kicks and punches, then reached into the victim's pocket and took his wallet. When he saw me coming he ran into a pub. I checked the guy he had attacked, who seemed more disappointed and resigned than hurt. I went in after the attacker, looked around in the fuggy atmosphere of cigarettes, stale beer and bad music, and saw him. We locked eyes. He darted back out the door and I chased him. We ran a few blocks down George Street. This little wiry dessicated bastard was fast. I suppose he was only thirty something, but a life on the street had sucked the fat out of him. He was kippered and embalmed and surfaced in a dark shiny layer of accretion. He was running away, and nothing else. I gave up, partly because when I considered the possibility of catching him I had no idea what I would do next, but mainly because I couldn't focus my being on chasing him as he could focus his on being chased. Breathing heavily I made it back to the car. When he was attacking, he was attacking man. Then he was stealing man. Then he was running away man. He was untroubled by considerations ethical or otherwise. He was travelling light. What he didn't have he took where he found it. Even so, for years afterwards I was surprised when people ripped me off. I had nothing to steal, after all. A meagre few belongings, a little food and shelter, hardly enough to stretch to two. I thought I was travelling light. Then I would remember running away man. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From and at MIT.EDU Mon Feb 4 03:43:14 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:43:14 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Travelling Light In-Reply-To: <47A5E6EE.4080707@nealemorison.com> References: <47A5E6EE.4080707@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <1202056994.24107.5.camel@dasein> Invisible Walking through the square Sometimes there are odors, Urine, cheap booze, old sweat; An out-stretched cup or bowl, The soft clank of shaking coins; A pleading voice, a hopeless voice, A voice demanding, a voice unsane; A message on card board: desperation Made literal, eloquent, simple; But no one is there. On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 11:08 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > > Travelling Light > > Once as I was stopped at a traffic light, a woman jumped out of a nearby > car and said Stop him, stop him. > There on the street corner a bum was beating the shit out of another > bum. He had him on the ground, delivered a few more vicious kicks and > punches, then reached into the victim's pocket and took his wallet. > When he saw me coming he ran into a pub. I checked the guy he had > attacked, who seemed more disappointed and resigned than hurt. I went in > after the attacker, looked around in the fuggy atmosphere of cigarettes, > stale beer and bad music, and saw him. We locked eyes. He darted back > out the door and I chased him. > We ran a few blocks down George Street. This little wiry dessicated > bastard was fast. I suppose he was only thirty something, but a life on > the street had sucked the fat out of him. He was kippered and embalmed > and surfaced in a dark shiny layer of accretion. He was running away, > and nothing else. I gave up, partly because when I considered the > possibility of catching him I had no idea what I would do next, but > mainly because I couldn't focus my being on chasing him as he could > focus his on being chased. Breathing heavily I made it back to the car. > When he was attacking, he was attacking man. Then he was stealing man. > Then he was running away man. He was untroubled by considerations > ethical or otherwise. He was travelling light. What he didn't have he > took where he found it. > > Even so, for years afterwards I was surprised when people ripped me off. > I had nothing to steal, after all. A meagre few belongings, a little > food and shelter, hardly enough to stretch to two. I thought I was > travelling light. Then I would remember running away man. > > > From nmorison at MIT.EDU Mon Feb 4 03:49:23 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 11:49:23 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Travelling Light In-Reply-To: <1202056994.24107.5.camel@dasein> References: <47A5E6EE.4080707@nealemorison.com> <1202056994.24107.5.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47A5F093.9030105@mit.edu> Very nice, Antony. And a deft counterstroke. Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > Invisible > > Walking through the square > Sometimes there are odors, > Urine, cheap booze, old sweat; > An out-stretched cup or bowl, > The soft clank of shaking coins; > A pleading voice, a hopeless voice, > A voice demanding, a voice unsane; > A message on card board: desperation > Made literal, eloquent, simple; > But no one is there. > > > > On Sun, 2008-02-03 at 11:08 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >> Travelling Light >> >> Once as I was stopped at a traffic light, a woman jumped out of a nearby >> car and said Stop him, stop him. >> There on the street corner a bum was beating the shit out of another >> bum. He had him on the ground, delivered a few more vicious kicks and >> punches, then reached into the victim's pocket and took his wallet. >> When he saw me coming he ran into a pub. I checked the guy he had >> attacked, who seemed more disappointed and resigned than hurt. I went in >> after the attacker, looked around in the fuggy atmosphere of cigarettes, >> stale beer and bad music, and saw him. We locked eyes. He darted back >> out the door and I chased him. >> We ran a few blocks down George Street. This little wiry dessicated >> bastard was fast. I suppose he was only thirty something, but a life on >> the street had sucked the fat out of him. He was kippered and embalmed >> and surfaced in a dark shiny layer of accretion. He was running away, >> and nothing else. I gave up, partly because when I considered the >> possibility of catching him I had no idea what I would do next, but >> mainly because I couldn't focus my being on chasing him as he could >> focus his on being chased. Breathing heavily I made it back to the car. >> When he was attacking, he was attacking man. Then he was stealing man. >> Then he was running away man. He was untroubled by considerations >> ethical or otherwise. He was travelling light. What he didn't have he >> took where he found it. >> >> Even so, for years afterwards I was surprised when people ripped me off. >> I had nothing to steal, after all. A meagre few belongings, a little >> food and shelter, hardly enough to stretch to two. I thought I was >> travelling light. Then I would remember running away man. >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From neale at nealemorison.com Mon Feb 4 06:41:46 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2008 14:41:46 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Travelling Light Draft 2 Message-ID: <47A618FA.6030908@nealemorison.com> Draft 2 is a 17% reduction in word count. I would like to suggest a way of responding that might help me. First, please let me know which in your opinion works better, draft 1 or draft 2. Secondly, for some contributions I want to request that you Please Rate. This means give the piece from 0 to 10, where 0 is unsuccessful and 10 is successful In addition, a word or two about good things and a word or two about bad things would help. Any issue is of interest: political position, word rhythm, subject matter, clarity. So, for draft 2, can you please rate? Draft 1 you've seen but I include it below. Thanks, Neale Travelling Light Draft 2 (264 words) Once I was at a red light when a woman jumped out of a nearby car and said Stop him, stop him. There on the street corner a bum was beating the shit out of another bum. He got him on the ground, delivered a few more vicious kicks and punches, then reached into the victim's pocket and took his wallet. He saw me coming and ran into a pub. The victim seemed more resigned than hurt. I went after the attacker. I looked around in the fug of cigarettes, stale beer and bad music. We locked eyes. He darted out another door. We ran a few blocks down George Street. This little dessicated bastard was fast. I suppose he was only thirty something, but the street had sucked the fat out of him. He was kippered and embalmed in shiny, dark accretion, and all he was doing was running away. I gave up, partly because on consideration I had no idea what to do if I caught him, but mainly because I couldn't focus as hard on chasing him as could on being chased. Breathing heavily I made it back to the car. When he was attacking, he was attacking man. Then he was stealing man. Then running away man. Untroubled by considerations ethical or otherwise. What he didn't have he took. Travelling light. Even so, for years afterward I was surprised when people ripped me off. I had nothing to steal. A meagre few belongings, a little food and shelter, hardly enough to stretch to two. I thought I was travelling light. Travelling Light Draft 1 (317 words) Once as I was stopped at a traffic light, a woman jumped out of a nearby car and said Stop him, stop him. There on the street corner a bum was beating the shit out of another bum. He had him on the ground, delivered a few more vicious kicks and punches, then reached into the victim's pocket and took his wallet. When he saw me coming he ran into a pub. I checked the guy he had attacked, who seemed more disappointed and resigned than hurt. I went in after the attacker, looked around in the fuggy atmosphere of cigarettes, stale beer and bad music, and saw him. We locked eyes. He darted back out the door and I chased him. We ran a few blocks down George Street. This little wiry dessicated bastard was fast. I suppose he was only thirty something, but a life on the street had sucked the fat out of him. He was kippered and embalmed and surfaced in a dark shiny layer of accretion. He was running away, and nothing else. I gave up, partly because when I considered the possibility of catching him I had no idea what I would do next, but mainly because I couldn't focus my being on chasing him as he could focus his on being chased. Breathing heavily I made it back to the car. When he was attacking, he was attacking man. Then he was stealing man. Then he was running away man. He was untroubled by considerations ethical or otherwise. He was travelling light. What he didn't have he took where he found it. Even so, for years afterwards I was surprised when people ripped me off. I had nothing to steal, after all. A meagre few belongings, a little food and shelter, hardly enough to stretch to two. I thought I was travelling light. Then I would remember running away man. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From nesvold at MIT.EDU Mon Feb 4 16:27:04 2008 From: nesvold at MIT.EDU (Jessica R Nesvold) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:27:04 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> Message-ID: <20080204002704.axhd1df8pxwsgwow@webmail.mit.edu> Hey guys, Thanks for the comments. :-) As a quick explanation, the poem is actually entirely composed of phrases from the titles of spam e-mails that I have received. - Jess Quoting Adam Holland : > OK, the last line of Neale's comment is one of the most insightful, pithy > things I've heard in a long time. > It would not be out of place in a Zen monastery, and completely reframes > this poem for me. > I will now have to do several rereadings. I agree that the correct > understanding of the title is key. > > On Feb 1, 2008 11:21 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > >> Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is something >> my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some >> alignment of parameters takes it. >> And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said Spam, not >> Thunderbird. >> I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an idea >> it may be about a subject near to my heart. >> Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by >> anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. >> I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with >> which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. >> But maybe that's not it. >> I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. >> Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a >> comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense (it's >> an 80s thing): >> It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. >> >> >> >> Jessica R Nesvold wrote: >> > I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. >> > >> > Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. >> > I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop >> > or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play >> > with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - >> > >> > Become the man you've always wanted: >> > A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Writingworkshop mailing list >> > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >> > >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >> > >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Writingworkshop mailing list >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >> > > > > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > From neale at nealemorison.com Mon Feb 4 16:45:29 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 00:45:29 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <20080204002704.axhd1df8pxwsgwow@webmail.mit.edu> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> <20080204002704.axhd1df8pxwsgwow@webmail.mit.edu> Message-ID: <47A6A679.2030406@nealemorison.com> Jess, where are you getting your spam? Great idea, and very edgy result. It's surreal, it's disturbing, it puts the boot into the whole military industrial patriarchal corporate thingy, plus it's weird. I did an Internet magazine column for a year or so, and I tried the spam pastiche a few times, but my stuff feels very straight by comparison. http://www.nealemorison.com/theend/04dearfriendspam21jun2000.htm http://www.nealemorison.com/theend/14gentlemanbrown.htm Thanks for putting me out of my misery. I'm interested in the long explanation. Neale Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > Hey guys, > > Thanks for the comments. :-) > As a quick explanation, the poem is actually entirely composed of phrases from > the titles of spam e-mails that I have received. > > - Jess > > Quoting Adam Holland : > > >> OK, the last line of Neale's comment is one of the most insightful, pithy >> things I've heard in a long time. >> It would not be out of place in a Zen monastery, and completely reframes >> this poem for me. >> I will now have to do several rereadings. I agree that the correct >> understanding of the title is key. >> >> On Feb 1, 2008 11:21 PM, Neale Morison wrote: >> >> >>> Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is something >>> my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some >>> alignment of parameters takes it. >>> And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said Spam, not >>> Thunderbird. >>> I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an idea >>> it may be about a subject near to my heart. >>> Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by >>> anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. >>> I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with >>> which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. >>> But maybe that's not it. >>> I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. >>> Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a >>> comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense (it's >>> an 80s thing): >>> It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. >>> >>> >>> >>> Jessica R Nesvold wrote: >>> >>>> I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. >>>> >>>> Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. >>>> I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop >>>> or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play >>>> with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - >>>> >>>> Become the man you've always wanted: >>>> A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>> >>>> >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> >> >> -- >> "Have you seen the snow leopard?" >> "No! Isn't that wonderful?" >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Mon Feb 4 23:51:52 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 07:51:52 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Spam In-Reply-To: <20080204002704.axhd1df8pxwsgwow@webmail.mit.edu> References: <47A3C2DD.8050908@nealemorison.com> <20080201230118.s87392z7rfa4g0ss@webmail.mit.edu> <47A3EFE2.8030308@mit.edu> <20080204002704.axhd1df8pxwsgwow@webmail.mit.edu> Message-ID: I initially assumed as much, but discounted the theory due to the outrageousness of some of the phrases. what spam had fried dolphins and / or pit vipers in it? Weird. On Feb 4, 2008 12:27 AM, Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > Hey guys, > > Thanks for the comments. :-) > As a quick explanation, the poem is actually entirely composed of phrases > from > the titles of spam e-mails that I have received. > > - Jess > > Quoting Adam Holland : > > > OK, the last line of Neale's comment is one of the most insightful, > pithy > > things I've heard in a long time. > > It would not be out of place in a Zen monastery, and completely reframes > > this poem for me. > > I will now have to do several rereadings. I agree that the correct > > understanding of the title is key. > > > > On Feb 1, 2008 11:21 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > > > >> Not only did it kill your apostrophes, but the title, Spam, is > something > >> my mail program has the temerity to add to a subject line when some > >> alignment of parameters takes it. > >> And yet the title Spam is key to the entire thing. So you said Spam, > not > >> Thunderbird. > >> I'm going to be thinking about this one for a while, but I have an idea > >> it may be about a subject near to my heart. > >> Spam messages add apparently random words to escape classification by > >> anti-spam algorithms, so the message is embedded in noise. > >> I love the way they do that, and I'm fascinated by the meaning with > >> which we struggle to imbue the unmeaning. > >> But maybe that's not it. > >> I like the threesome thrills and the pit viper a lot. > >> Thanks for sending this. I want to understand it. Reminds me of a > >> comment by David Byrne in an interview regarding Stop Making Sense > (it's > >> an 80s thing): > >> It makes sense unless you try to figure it out. > >> > >> > >> > >> Jessica R Nesvold wrote: > >> > I love when other people turn out to love the same shit I do. > >> > > >> > Fried dolphins, men of Steel, muddy females looking for a friend. > >> > I never say no and she never will either, as long as you don't stop > >> > or think of threesome thrills. Obtain degrees! Now you can play > >> > with power. You're on a roll, I'm on the rocks. I'm ready to - > >> > > >> > Become the man you've always wanted: > >> > A precise pit viper with plenty of sperm. > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Writingworkshop mailing list > >> > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >> > > >> > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >> > > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Writingworkshop mailing list > >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >> > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080204/ce982645/attachment.html From nmorison at MIT.EDU Tue Feb 5 01:43:42 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2008 09:43:42 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Rules Governing Literary Art Message-ID: <47A7249E.7030705@mit.edu> Rules Governing Literary Art I was unable to to find more information on Twain.19-22, Powell.3, Powell.5 or Powell.6. I would guess that the doozie quotient refers to some limit on outrageousness. Not something I'd impose. If anyone has more on these, or any additional rules, please post. --- From Mark Twain's piece on Fenimore Cooper's literary offenses in "The Deerslayer" http://ww3.telerama.com/~joseph/cooper/cooper.html The 19 rules: There are nineteen rules governing literary art in the domain of romantic fiction - some say twenty-two. 1. A tale shall accomplish something and arrive somewhere. 2. The episodes in a tale shall be necessary parts of the tale, and shall help to develop it. 3. The personages in a tale shall be alive, except in the case of corpses, and always the reader shall be able to tell the corpses from the others. 4. The personages in a tale, both dead and alive, shall exhibit a sufficient excuse for being there. 5. When the personages of a tale deal in conversation, the talk shall sound like human talk, and be talk such as human beings would be likely to talk in the given circumstances, and have a disoverable meaning, also a discoverable purpose and a show of relevancy, and remain in the neighborhood of the subject in hand, and be interesting to ther reader, and help out the tale, and stop when the people cannot think of anything more say. 6. When the author describes the character of a personage in the tale, the conduct and conversation of that personage shall justify said description. 7. When a personage talks like an illustrated, gilt-edged, tree-calf, hand-tooled, seven-dollar Friendship's Offering in the beginning of a paragraph, he shall not talk like a negro minstrel in the end of it. 8. Crass stupidities shall not be played upon the reader as "the craft of the woodsman, the delicate art of the forest," by either the author or the people in the tale. 9. The personages of a tale shall confine themselves to possibilities and let miracles alone; or, if they venture a miracle, the author must so plausibly set it forth as to make it look possible and reasonable. 10. The author shall make the reader feel a deep interest in the personages of his tale and in their fate; and that he shall make the reader love the good people in the tale and hate the bad ones. 11. The characters in a tale shall be so clearly defined that the reader can tell beforehand what each will do in a given emergency. In addition to these large rules, there are some little ones. These require that the author shall: 12. Say what he is proposing to say, not merely come near it. 13. Use the right word, not its second cousin. 14. Eschew surplusage. 15. Not omit necessary details. 16. Avoid slovenliness of form. 17. Use good grammar. 18. Employ a simple and straightforward style. 19. ??? --- More rules from Padgett Powell: http://www.believermag.com/issues/200609/?read=interview_powell Rule 1: The Gosling Rule. The story concerns the first thing the reader sees move. Rule 2: The problem, or the apparent and necessarily related problem, must appear soon, in the first paragraph if not the first sentence. Rule 3: is a complex function [wh = f(c1,c2,c3... + e + t)] involving withholding. Rule 4: the bar test: everything must be said more or less as you might say it to a stranger in a bar. Rule 5: The doozie quotient. Rule 7: is the 3 Questions: Did it, could it, should it happen? Before any of these rules apply the writing must place itself unmurkily on the spectrum of credulity. --- Flannery O'Connor 1. The higher the fantasy of action, the more precise the writing. --- 26 Golden Rules for Writing Well 1. Don't abbrev. 2. Check to see if you any words out. 3. Be carefully to use adjectives and adverbs correct. 4. About sentence fragments. 5. When dangling, don't use participles. 6. Don't use no double negatives. 7. Each pronoun agrees with their antecedent. 8. Just between you and I, case is important. 9. Join clauses good, like a conjunction should. 10. Don't use commas, that aren't necessary. 11. Its important to use apostrophe's right. 12. It's better not to unnecessarily split an infinitive. 13. Never leave a transitive verb just lay there without an object. 14. Only Proper Nouns should be capitalized. also a sentence should begin with a capital letter and end with a full stop 15. Use hyphens in compound-words, not just in any two-word phrase. 16. In letters compositions reports and things like that we use commas to keep a string of items apart. 17. Watch out for irregular verbs that have creeped into our language. 18. Verbs has to agree with their subjects. 19. Avoid unnecessary redundancy. 20. A writer mustn't shift your point of view. 21. Don't write a run-on sentence you've got to punctuate it. 22. A preposition isn't a good thing to end a sentence with. 23. Avoid cliches like the plague. 24. 1 final thing is to never start a sentence with a number. 25. Always check your work for accuracy and completeness. [ANON.] Detective Stories http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/vandine.htm Parts of speech, cities and fruit http://mumpsimus.blogspot.com/2006/11/rules-for-writing.html From neale at nealemorison.com Wed Feb 6 00:56:04 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 08:56:04 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Psychobabble Message-ID: <47A86AF4.1040007@nealemorison.com> I think when I'm thinking of thinking, I feel a sensation of sinking In endless recursion, And so for diversion I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. An inwardly facing obsession, A habit of mental regression, A strong predilection Towards introspection, May lead to a state of depression. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From neale at nealemorison.com Wed Feb 6 01:18:41 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 09:18:41 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling Message-ID: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> I think when I'm thinking of thinking, I feel a sensation of sinking In endless recursion, And so for diversion I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. An inwardly facing obsession, A habit of mental regression, A strong predilection Towards introspection, May lead to a state of depression. You can read things as white, you can read black, You need to receive what you need back, Your personal spiral, Is healing or viral, Depends on the sense of the feedback -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 03:16:14 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:16:14 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: I feel like, in the third stanza's first two lines, and the last, you lose the rhythm you have established previously . On Feb 5, 2008 9:18 AM, Neale Morison wrote: > I think when I'm thinking of thinking, > I feel a sensation of sinking > In endless recursion, > And so for diversion > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > An inwardly facing obsession, > A habit of mental regression, > A strong predilection > Towards introspection, > May lead to a state of depression. > > You can read things as white, you can read black, > You need to receive what you need back, > Your personal spiral, > Is healing or viral, > Depends on the sense of the feedback > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080205/1f78af0a/attachment.html From neale at nealemorison.com Wed Feb 6 03:52:09 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:52:09 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> Yes. You're right. Thanks for not letting me get away with it. I fell in love with 'the sense of the feedback', but the second syllable of feedback is too stressed. Must reduce my stress, must reduce my stress, must reduce my stress. Adam Holland wrote: > I feel like, in the third stanza's first two lines, and the last, you > lose the rhythm you have established previously > . > > On Feb 5, 2008 9:18 AM, Neale Morison > wrote: > > I think when I'm thinking of thinking, > I feel a sensation of sinking > In endless recursion, > And so for diversion > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > An inwardly facing obsession, > A habit of mental regression, > A strong predilection > Towards introspection, > May lead to a state of depression. > > You can read things as white, you can read black, > You need to receive what you need back, > Your personal spiral, > Is healing or viral, > Depends on the sense of the feedback > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 11:19:55 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 19:19:55 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: Don't get me wrong, I think it is quite good as is, but that 10th syllable in the first line threw my internal scan. However, on subsequent readthroughs aloud, It seems to work fine, so I am no longer sure what was giving me fits originally. I think it was that I wanted to hit "black" with my natural stresses instead of "Read" again, since it's natural to set it up as the opposite with tone as well as meaning. But if you as the author were reading it aloud, you could easily go You can read things as white, you can READ black," and it would sound fine. Further, it would then mesh with "NEED back" which I think I was led to hear as "need BACK" trying to find the "black" from the previous line. Also, super quibble, but your spiral is / depends seems like it should grammatically have either a "Whether your spiral" or the "depends" should be "depending" It's a lot of fun, though, and I stand by my Ogden Nash comment. On Feb 5, 2008 11:52 AM, Neale Morison wrote: > Yes. You're right. Thanks for not letting me get away with it. I fell in > love with 'the sense of the feedback', but the second syllable of > feedback is too stressed. Must reduce my stress, must reduce my stress, > must reduce my stress. > > Adam Holland wrote: > > I feel like, in the third stanza's first two lines, and the last, you > > lose the rhythm you have established previously > > . > > > > On Feb 5, 2008 9:18 AM, Neale Morison > > wrote: > > > > I think when I'm thinking of thinking, > > I feel a sensation of sinking > > In endless recursion, > > And so for diversion > > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > > > An inwardly facing obsession, > > A habit of mental regression, > > A strong predilection > > Towards introspection, > > May lead to a state of depression. > > > > You can read things as white, you can read black, > > You need to receive what you need back, > > Your personal spiral, > > Is healing or viral, > > Depends on the sense of the feedback > > > > -- > > Neale Morison > > neale at nealemorison.com > > http://www.nealemorison.com > > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > > +1 617 460 9969 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080205/33930752/attachment.html From neale at nealemorison.com Wed Feb 6 13:32:53 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 21:32:53 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <47A91C55.3090204@nealemorison.com> I could claim the Ogden Nash trick of overtly forcing a difficult rhyme or scan: Parsley Is gharsley Everybody Tells Me Everything by Ogden Nash I find it very difficult to enthuse Over the current news. Just when you think that at least the outlook is so black that it can grow no blacker, it worsens, And that is why I do not like the news, because there has never been an era when so many things were going so right for so many of the wrong persons. but really the whole thing is a cheat from start to finish, including grammatical liberties and skewed stresses. I'm been trying to fix it. It is ok as a throwaway, but it has not earned a place in the epic Miltonesque psychological limerick treatise I envisage. Adam Holland wrote: > Don't get me wrong, I think it is quite good as is, but that 10th > syllable in the first line threw my internal scan., > > However, on subsequent readthroughs aloud, It seems to work fine, so I > am no longer sure what was giving me fits originally. > > I think it was that I wanted to hit "black" with my natural stresses > instead of "Read" again, since it's natural to set it up as the > opposite with tone as well as meaning. > But if you as the author were reading it aloud, you could easily go > > You can read things as white, you can READ black," > > and it would sound fine. Further, it would then mesh with "NEED > back" which I think I was led to hear as "need BACK" trying to find > the "black" from the previous line. > > Also, super quibble, but your spiral is / depends seems like it > should grammatically have either a "Whether your spiral" or the > "depends" should be "depending" > > It's a lot of fun, though, and I stand by my Ogden Nash comment. > > On Feb 5, 2008 11:52 AM, Neale Morison > wrote: > > Yes. You're right. Thanks for not letting me get away with it. I > fell in > love with 'the sense of the feedback', but the second syllable of > feedback is too stressed. Must reduce my stress, must reduce my > stress, > must reduce my stress. > > Adam Holland wrote: > > I feel like, in the third stanza's first two lines, and the > last, you > > lose the rhythm you have established previously > > . > > > > On Feb 5, 2008 9:18 AM, Neale Morison > > >> > wrote: > > > > I think when I'm thinking of thinking, > > I feel a sensation of sinking > > In endless recursion, > > And so for diversion > > I'm thinking of thinking of thinking. > > > > An inwardly facing obsession, > > A habit of mental regression, > > A strong predilection > > Towards introspection, > > May lead to a state of depression. > > > > You can read things as white, you can read black, > > You need to receive what you need back, > > Your personal spiral, > > Is healing or viral, > > Depends on the sense of the feedback > > > > -- > > Neale Morison > > neale at nealemorison.com > > > > http://www.nealemorison.com > > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > > +1 617 460 9969 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > "Have you seen the snow leopard?" > "No! Isn't that wonderful?" > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 13:42:37 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:42:37 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: <47A91C55.3090204@nealemorison.com> References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> <47A91C55.3090204@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: I'd buy that in hardback! On Feb 5, 2008 9:32 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > the epic > Miltonesque psychological limerick treatise I envisage. > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080205/8a470a60/attachment.html From neale at nealemorison.com Wed Feb 6 14:55:55 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2008 22:55:55 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> <47A91C55.3090204@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <47A92FCB.7050605@nealemorison.com> Attempted fix Despair and its obverse, hilarity, Are products of thought circularity, The cognitive spiral Is healing or viral, Depending on feedback polarity. Adam Holland wrote: > > I'd buy that in hardback! > > On Feb 5, 2008 9:32 PM, Neale Morison > wrote: > > the epic > Miltonesque psychological limerick treatise I envisage. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From adam.holland at gmail.com Wed Feb 6 15:03:02 2008 From: adam.holland at gmail.com (Adam Holland) Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 23:03:02 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Still psychobabbling In-Reply-To: <47A92FCB.7050605@nealemorison.com> References: <47A87041.3080509@nealemorison.com> <47A89439.1070807@nealemorison.com> <47A91C55.3090204@nealemorison.com> <47A92FCB.7050605@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: I love it. the comma break is well thought, and the reach of your metaphor broader. also, nice use of "obverse" On Feb 5, 2008 10:55 PM, Neale Morison wrote: > Attempted fix > > Despair and its obverse, hilarity, > Are products of thought circularity, > The cognitive spiral > Is healing or viral, > Depending on feedback polarity. > > Adam Holland wrote: > > > > I'd buy that in hardback! > > > > On Feb 5, 2008 9:32 PM, Neale Morison > > wrote: > > > > the epic > > Miltonesque psychological limerick treatise I envisage. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > -- "Have you seen the snow leopard?" "No! Isn't that wonderful?" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://nealemorison.com/pipermail/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com/attachments/20080205/fdba760d/attachment.html From neale at nealemorison.com Thu Feb 7 03:39:43 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2008 11:39:43 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Fiat Lux Message-ID: <47A9E2CF.6010900@nealemorison.com> As I was leaving the house yesterday I met a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses at the door. They offered me some literature. Everything is material. I have to stop reading this stuff, but it's compulsive. There's lake Baikal, colonized by the endangered Siberian mountain goat, the endangered Barguzin sable, a unique freshwater seal, the golomyanka, a fish that lives at depths of 1600 feet and melts in sunlight, and Jehovah's witnesses since 1951. There's a technical and historical piece on the tetragrammaton and its appearance on coins of the sixteenth century. And there's the witness of hippie surfer Karl: "I reasoned that the Bible should be the basis for truth, so I traded some hallucinogenic mushrooms for an old King James Version of the Bible." "Determined to serve Jehovah, we stopped living together and having close association with our former friends. I shaved off my beard and got a haircut, and Sue bought a few dresses." The after photo witnesses that Karl later lost most of his hair and bought an appalling tie. For the tie there is forgiveness but Karl prefers the New World Testament over the King James, for which he paid good goldtops: KJ 1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. NWT 1: In [the] beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2: Now the earth proved to be formless and waste and there was darkness upon the surface of [the] watery deep; and God?s active force was moving to and fro over the surface of the waters. 3: And God proceeded to say: ?Let light come to be.? Then there came to be light. Imagine living forever in an earthly paradise surrounded by people with tin ears. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From neale at nealemorison.com Fri Feb 8 01:19:09 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 09:19:09 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Playwriting and Minsky Message-ID: <47AB135D.1000103@nealemorison.com> Yesterday I started my Playwriting course at Harvard. It's going to be intense. There were several on-the-spot in class writing exercises, about 10 minutes each. Fulfilling a set of criteria in the time is hairy and scary, but it makes you think. Exercise 2 [Instructions: Call to mind a person. It doesn't have to be someone you know. Just let a person come into your view, into your mental field. What they're doing, what they're wearing, whereabouts they are, what the atmosphere is in this place. Be a detective and see if you can tell by looking at this person what kind of state they're in. Do they seem relaxed or tense. In a hurry, or slow. What are they doing? Is it night or day? What's going on with this person. Guess where they might have come from and where they might be going. You don't necessarily know. Just a guess. When you have a pretty good sense of this person, let someone else come into the picture with a very different energy or speed to the first person. The first person knows the second person. (whoops) Look at the second person. Who are they, what's going on with them? What's changed. When you have sense of this little scenario, in your mind, start to write it down, in the present tense, as a description. There has to a surprise, and there has to be a flash of light. The last thing is that one of them makes a gesture to the other. It can be very tiny. ] Ben is sitting in the school bus. He's tired, and pale. He lacks confidence in himself, but not in his judgement of the world. He's wearing the uniform of urban poverty. He's had a late night, and not a pleasant one, and this morning he is just on his way to school, just hoping to get through it. The bus stops to pick up a passenger, and a brisk man in a suit gets on the bus. Johnson: Ben. Mind if I sit down? You don't know me. I'm Agent Johnson. I wonder if you'd mind answering a few questions. Ben: What? Here? Johnson: Here is good for me. You mind telling me where you went last night, Ben? Ben: Yeah. I do. Johnson: We can do this the easy way or the hard way, Ben. Ben: The hard way sounds good. Johnson pulls out a camera and takes a flash picture of Ben. Ben: Jesus, what are you doing? Johnson: Just a picture for our files. I'll tell you, Ben, if this matches the security footage we will definitely be doing things the hard way. Ben: Okay, okay, I was at my girlfriend's. Johnson: Your girlfriend. Who's she? Ben: Your mother. Read it to the person next to you. This is not literary critique. Share it with the other person. Your job as a listener is to tell the person what you most notice. Consider your attention, what you notice, as a magnet. Magnetism, the magnet of your attention, is the voice of the writer. If you swing the magnet of your attention over the material it will start to pattern, and organise the material in a really particular way. That's a goal, that's where your voice is. Summing up what you notice in the material around you from the prompts in the material says a lot about the things that really speak to you. It's interesting to think this way rather than have the anxiety of what I am going to write about. Exercise 3 [Two people in an argument about a car. Later it turns out that the argument is about something else. ] A: What the bloody hell was that? B: You all right? A: What did you think you were doing? B: You've hurt you knee. A: You idiot! Don't you ever look? B: Let me help you with that. Here, I've got your bike. A: It's a write off. You've written it off. B: I'll have to get your name and license. A: What's the damage to your car? B: Scratches... the door. Let's see. No, it closes all right. I can drive. A: How much? B: Can't the insurance companies sort that out? You're insured? A: $500? Here. Take $500. B: Look, I don't think... A: $1500. B: Well, ok. A: And you never saw me. I also went to my Marvin Minsky lecture, The Society of Mind. Among many fascinating digressions, which form the bulk of the presentation, Minsky talked about his friend Isaac Asimov. Asimov never wrote a second draft. He gave up in about 1949. He used to hire people to do an edit and leave it to them. I asked him how he used to write. He said you sit down at a typewriter and move your fingers. We were building some interesting robots at the lab and I invited him over several times to see, but he never came. I asked him why he didn't come. He said he was trying to write about robots that could do think and he didn't want to see this clumsy 70s stuff. -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From and at MIT.EDU Fri Feb 8 13:01:27 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:01:27 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is amazing. I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come through in that? I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the sarcasm first. Antony On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what > is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be > interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the > library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But > I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. > Neale > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read > > "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick > > it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work > > as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour > > plus each day I'd like to make productive. > > > > Antony > > > > On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > > > >> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But > >> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. > >> > >> Christopher Robichaud wrote: > >> > >>> So you really liked it! :) > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com > >>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison > >>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM > >>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner > >>> > >>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation > >>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the > >>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. > >>> Happy New Year! > >>> Neale > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Writingworkshop mailing list > >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > From neale at nealemorison.com Fri Feb 8 13:21:43 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:21:43 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> Who did the audio book? I'm thinking of trying audio books while running and bicycling. Thanks for taking a look at the response. It was really just a path through the novel for me. I had to take all sorts of notes and record all those issues of deliberate obfuscation and that got me through to about the three quarter point you need to hit before you start figuring out what's happening. In the end it turned into a twisted homage. It's certainly true that Miss Prissy (I kept thinking of her as the hen in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons, the single mom with the brainiac chick) would probably have just written a bald rejection notice, but perhaps she vicariously enjoyed the sex in the novel and by transference developed the hots for William. The long rejection notice is by way of an overture. Needs thought. Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is > amazing. > > I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the > test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so > completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come > through in that? > > I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that > focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the > sarcasm first. > > Antony > > On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >> It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what >> is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be >> interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the >> library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But >> I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. >> Neale >> >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >> >>> I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read >>> "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick >>> it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work >>> as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour >>> plus each day I'd like to make productive. >>> >>> Antony >>> >>> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But >>>> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. >>>> >>>> Christopher Robichaud wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> So you really liked it! :) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com >>>>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM >>>>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner >>>>> >>>>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation >>>>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the >>>>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. >>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>> Neale >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 From and at MIT.EDU Fri Feb 8 13:45:53 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 21:45:53 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> Message-ID: <1202438753.26601.17.camel@dasein> Grover Gardner read the novel. He's very good. It's a recent version too. 2003, I think. I highly recommend it. The stream-of-consciousness really works well read aloud. And that you can't go back is in some ways a benefit. Antony On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 21:21 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > Who did the audio book? I'm thinking of trying audio books while running > and bicycling. > Thanks for taking a look at the response. It was really just a path > through the novel for me. I had to take all sorts of notes and record > all those issues of deliberate obfuscation and that got me through to > about the three quarter point you need to hit before you start figuring > out what's happening. In the end it turned into a twisted homage. > It's certainly true that Miss Prissy (I kept thinking of her as the hen > in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons, the single mom with the brainiac chick) > would probably have just written a bald rejection notice, but perhaps > she vicariously enjoyed the sex in the novel and by transference > developed the hots for William. The long rejection notice is by way of > an overture. Needs thought. > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is > > amazing. > > > > I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the > > test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so > > completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come > > through in that? > > > > I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that > > focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the > > sarcasm first. > > > > Antony > > > > On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > > > >> It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what > >> is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be > >> interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the > >> library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But > >> I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. > >> Neale > >> > >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > >> > >>> I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read > >>> "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick > >>> it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work > >>> as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour > >>> plus each day I'd like to make productive. > >>> > >>> Antony > >>> > >>> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But > >>>> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. > >>>> > >>>> Christopher Robichaud wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> So you really liked it! :) > >>>>> > >>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com > >>>>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM > >>>>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>>>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner > >>>>> > >>>>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation > >>>>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the > >>>>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. > >>>>> Happy New Year! > >>>>> Neale > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Writingworkshop mailing list > >>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Writingworkshop mailing list > >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > > > -- > Neale Morison > neale at nealemorison.com > http://www.nealemorison.com > 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > +1 617 460 9969 > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com From nmorison at MIT.EDU Fri Feb 8 14:02:07 2008 From: nmorison at MIT.EDU (Neale Morison) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:02:07 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <1202438753.26601.17.camel@dasein> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> <1202438753.26601.17.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47ABC62F.5070101@mit.edu> Faulkner might have made one of a number of responses to the rejection notice: http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_fandango.wav http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_damperdown.wav http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_matrimonial.wav http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/light.wav Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > Grover Gardner read the novel. He's very good. It's a recent version > too. 2003, I think. > > I highly recommend it. The stream-of-consciousness really works well > read aloud. And that you can't go back is in some ways a benefit. > > Antony > > On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 21:21 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >> Who did the audio book? I'm thinking of trying audio books while running >> and bicycling. >> Thanks for taking a look at the response. It was really just a path >> through the novel for me. I had to take all sorts of notes and record >> all those issues of deliberate obfuscation and that got me through to >> about the three quarter point you need to hit before you start figuring >> out what's happening. In the end it turned into a twisted homage. >> It's certainly true that Miss Prissy (I kept thinking of her as the hen >> in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons, the single mom with the brainiac chick) >> would probably have just written a bald rejection notice, but perhaps >> she vicariously enjoyed the sex in the novel and by transference >> developed the hots for William. The long rejection notice is by way of >> an overture. Needs thought. >> >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >> >>> I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is >>> amazing. >>> >>> I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the >>> test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so >>> completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come >>> through in that? >>> >>> I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that >>> focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the >>> sarcasm first. >>> >>> Antony >>> >>> On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>> >>> >>>> It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what >>>> is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be >>>> interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the >>>> library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But >>>> I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. >>>> Neale >>>> >>>> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read >>>>> "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick >>>>> it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work >>>>> as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour >>>>> plus each day I'd like to make productive. >>>>> >>>>> Antony >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But >>>>>> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. >>>>>> >>>>>> Christopher Robichaud wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> So you really liked it! :) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com >>>>>>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM >>>>>>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>>>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation >>>>>>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the >>>>>>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. >>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>> Neale >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> Neale Morison >> neale at nealemorison.com >> http://www.nealemorison.com >> 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 >> +1 617 460 9969 >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Writingworkshop mailing list >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > From and at MIT.EDU Fri Feb 8 14:31:41 2008 From: and at MIT.EDU (Antony Nigel Donovan) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:31:41 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <47ABC62F.5070101@mit.edu> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> <1202438753.26601.17.camel@dasein> <47ABC62F.5070101@mit.edu> Message-ID: <1202441501.26601.24.camel@dasein> Just a little more on this: I'm going to try Absalom, Absalom! on audio CD (although not this week) I take representing Faulkner as Foghorn Leghorn as a compliment to them both. When did underscores become valid DNS characters? My e-mail program is still sure they're not (and I'm too lazy right now to search out the RFCs). On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 22:02 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > Faulkner might have made one of a number of responses to the rejection > notice: > http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_fandango.wav > http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_damperdown.wav > http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_matrimonial.wav > http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/light.wav > > > Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > > Grover Gardner read the novel. He's very good. It's a recent version > > too. 2003, I think. > > > > I highly recommend it. The stream-of-consciousness really works well > > read aloud. And that you can't go back is in some ways a benefit. > > > > Antony > > > > On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 21:21 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > > > >> Who did the audio book? I'm thinking of trying audio books while running > >> and bicycling. > >> Thanks for taking a look at the response. It was really just a path > >> through the novel for me. I had to take all sorts of notes and record > >> all those issues of deliberate obfuscation and that got me through to > >> about the three quarter point you need to hit before you start figuring > >> out what's happening. In the end it turned into a twisted homage. > >> It's certainly true that Miss Prissy (I kept thinking of her as the hen > >> in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons, the single mom with the brainiac chick) > >> would probably have just written a bald rejection notice, but perhaps > >> she vicariously enjoyed the sex in the novel and by transference > >> developed the hots for William. The long rejection notice is by way of > >> an overture. Needs thought. > >> > >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > >> > >>> I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is > >>> amazing. > >>> > >>> I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the > >>> test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so > >>> completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come > >>> through in that? > >>> > >>> I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that > >>> focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the > >>> sarcasm first. > >>> > >>> Antony > >>> > >>> On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>> It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what > >>>> is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be > >>>> interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the > >>>> library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But > >>>> I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. > >>>> Neale > >>>> > >>>> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read > >>>>> "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick > >>>>> it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work > >>>>> as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour > >>>>> plus each day I'd like to make productive. > >>>>> > >>>>> Antony > >>>>> > >>>>> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But > >>>>>> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Christopher Robichaud wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> So you really liked it! :) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>>>>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com > >>>>>>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison > >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM > >>>>>>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>>>>>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation > >>>>>>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the > >>>>>>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. > >>>>>>> Happy New Year! > >>>>>>> Neale > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list > >>>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list > >>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Writingworkshop mailing list > >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> -- > >> Neale Morison > >> neale at nealemorison.com > >> http://www.nealemorison.com > >> 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 > >> +1 617 460 9969 > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Writingworkshop mailing list > >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Writingworkshop mailing list > > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com From neale at nealemorison.com Fri Feb 8 14:50:38 2008 From: neale at nealemorison.com (Neale Morison) Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2008 22:50:38 -0500 Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner In-Reply-To: <1202441501.26601.24.camel@dasein> References: <4784543A.8010308@nealemorison.com> <002301c8533b$0d081af0$0d00a8c0@cjrobichaud> <4785F1FA.80908@mit.edu> <1200711527.6007.7.camel@dasein> <47916A09.9050405@nealemorison.com> <1202436087.26601.9.camel@dasein> <47ABBCB7.1050209@nealemorison.com> <1202438753.26601.17.camel@dasein> <47ABC62F.5070101@mit.edu> <1202441501.26601.24.camel@dasein> Message-ID: <47ABD18E.5030701@nealemorison.com> Hell's bells! A simple Warner Bros reference becomes a contest of RFC correctness. Mp3s attached. Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: > Just a little more on this: > > I'm going to try Absalom, Absalom! on audio CD (although not this week) > > I take representing Faulkner as Foghorn Leghorn as a compliment to them > both. > > When did underscores become valid DNS characters? My e-mail program is > still sure they're not (and I'm too lazy right now to search out the > RFCs). > > > > On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 22:02 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: > >> Faulkner might have made one of a number of responses to the rejection >> notice: >> http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_fandango.wav >> http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_damperdown.wav >> http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/orah_matrimonial.wav >> http://one_foggy.tripod.com/sounds/light.wav >> >> >> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >> >>> Grover Gardner read the novel. He's very good. It's a recent version >>> too. 2003, I think. >>> >>> I highly recommend it. The stream-of-consciousness really works well >>> read aloud. And that you can't go back is in some ways a benefit. >>> >>> Antony >>> >>> On Thu, 2008-02-07 at 21:21 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Who did the audio book? I'm thinking of trying audio books while running >>>> and bicycling. >>>> Thanks for taking a look at the response. It was really just a path >>>> through the novel for me. I had to take all sorts of notes and record >>>> all those issues of deliberate obfuscation and that got me through to >>>> about the three quarter point you need to hit before you start figuring >>>> out what's happening. In the end it turned into a twisted homage. >>>> It's certainly true that Miss Prissy (I kept thinking of her as the hen >>>> in the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons, the single mom with the brainiac chick) >>>> would probably have just written a bald rejection notice, but perhaps >>>> she vicariously enjoyed the sex in the novel and by transference >>>> developed the hots for William. The long rejection notice is by way of >>>> an overture. Needs thought. >>>> >>>> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I just finished the audio book and it worked very well. The novel is >>>>> amazing. >>>>> >>>>> I think your novel submission response also worked well, but fails the >>>>> test of verisimilitude. No editor, or slush reader, would respond so >>>>> completely to what they perceived as a failed work. Did the humor come >>>>> through in that? >>>>> >>>>> I actually think that your response could form the basis of a class that >>>>> focused on this one novel. But, you'd probably have to remove the >>>>> sarcasm first. >>>>> >>>>> Antony >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, 2008-01-18 at 22:10 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> It might work as an audio book. The temptation to try to figure out what >>>>>> is going on by rereading sections would be avoided. It would be >>>>>> interesting to hear how an actor reads Benjy's bit. I might try the >>>>>> library for one myself. I suppose my response does contain spoilers. But >>>>>> I have no idea who dun it. Or what they dun. >>>>>> Neale >>>>>> >>>>>> Antony Nigel Donovan wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I haven't read your response mostly because I don't think I've ever read >>>>>>> "The Sound and the Fury." It's at my local library and I intend to pick >>>>>>> it up next week. For all who have read it, do you think it would work >>>>>>> as an audio book? I've been commuting to Natick and so I have and hour >>>>>>> plus each day I'd like to make productive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Antony >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 2008-01-10 at 05:22 -0500, Neale Morison wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I thought it was stunning. Haven't stopped thinking about it since. But >>>>>>>> the overt obfuscation awakened the prissy PC editorial voice in me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Christopher Robichaud wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So you really liked it! :) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com >>>>>>>>> [mailto:writingworkshop-bounces at nealemorison.com] On Behalf Of Neale Morison >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2008 11:58 PM >>>>>>>>> To: writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: [Writingworkshop] Thank You Mr Faulkner >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi all. I read "The Sound and the Fury" recently, on a recommendation >>>>>>>>> from Joe and Chris who said it was even more confusing than some of the >>>>>>>>> stories we had in writing class. Attached is a response. >>>>>>>>> Happy New Year! >>>>>>>>> Neale >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>>>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Neale Morison >>>> neale at nealemorison.com >>>> http://www.nealemorison.com >>>> 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 >>>> +1 617 460 9969 >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Writingworkshop mailing list >>> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >>> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Writingworkshop mailing list >> Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com >> http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Writingworkshop mailing list > Writingworkshop at nealemorison.com > http://nealemorison.com/mailman/listinfo/writingworkshop_nealemorison.com > > -- Neale Morison neale at nealemorison.com http://www.nealemorison.com 31 Maple Ave #2, Cambridge MA 02139 +1 617 460 9969 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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